Ep 7. From Farm to Fork: Navigating Seasonal Challenges in British Food

Introduction

Derek Wright: Welcome back to the Love British Food Podcast. Whether you're a foodie, a farmer, or simply interested in the stories behind great British food, you're in the right place. I'm your host, Derek Wright. In today's episode, we're going to have a catch up with Graham Collie, executive chef from King's College London. First of all, let's head over to our resident farmer, Sam from Malbro Farms.

Sam's farming update

so we've just come to the end of harvest, Sam. We've seen your fabulous investment into your production here on the farm. tell us a little bit about harvest in general, some of the challenges that you've had out there and maybe what other elements of farming have struggled with over this harvest. We've talked, haven't we, about that it's been wet, it's been dry, we've ah, had a bit of a mixed bag around weather. So just tell us a little bit about that from the farm point of view.

Sam: so, yeah, like you said, it's definitely been mixed bag this summer. Essentially it's been kind of perfect for farming because you've had a great amount of rain, you've had a great amount of sun, everything's been growing like crazy. But then you've also got a slight downside where everything grows a bit too much. If it's the likes of lettuce, then, you know, the heads maybe get too big and they're no good for the supermarkets. And if it's leeks, then they might bolt through the middle. They're no good for the supermarkets. So yeah, there's never sort of a happy medium farming. Yeah, definitely for this summer it's been sort of extreme. From one way to the next. We either get extreme heat or like the last month, in a, in a matter of two or three days you get two inches of rain. And especially in this time of the year, the land's not quite ready for it yet.

Derek Wright: Yeah.

Sam: So farmers are still putting the plants in and getting the ground ready for the plants. So they're, they're working it as fine as possible. And that top six inch just goes to absolute porridge.

Derek Wright: Yeah.

Sam: So it's, it's one of those things that you can't control, but unfortunately something you've got to deal with.

Derek Wright: And you mentioned about that waste element because there's never a perfect crop, is there? There's always something if it's a shape or, you know, as you say, if there's bolts of things through that plant that the supermarkets don't want it and it becomes natural food waste when we could actually use it. One of the fascinating things we saw on the plant was actually, where we've, where we see them, saw in the leaks is actually that, you know, some of that waste is actually going to soup production, which is, which is really good because I think sometimes, certainly from our ah, cheffy element, we, we want the most perfect product or ingredient that we can buy. And sometimes, you know, that those bits of what we would call food waste can be utilized with it within food. And I think that's a real key and that's great to see that, you know, that waste is being thought about. And we spoke about the natural fertilization, didn't we, of using the waste product from the leeks to minimize the amount of fertilizer you're gonna have to buy. It's expensive, but it's not really good for the land, is it?

Sam: No. In the long run you want to try and avoid it as much as you can. And I understand with certain crop types you can't as such put too much back onto the land. Some things like lettuce leaves or something like that, they haven't got a high nutritional value in them. There's nothing a great organic value. So with, with leaks, like I say, once they rot down over the next week or so, the organic values through the roof.

Derek Wright: Yeah.

Sam: So, you know, if we have that waste, we spend it back on the fields isn't a massive sort of, you know, it's a great result for us really, in a way. Like you say, saving on that chemical fertilizer and saving the cost as well. However, if there is a market for that waste as such, then being able to use like utilize that and even get a couple of quid back for it is great. Even if it's not the prettiest of product, it's still, like I say, it's still got the same nutritional value, same goodness, same taste, same flavor. So it's just the way it looks.

Derek Wright: Yeah, it's just a shame. And we've spoken about a lot about leeks. What about other areas of agriculture, how they done during the harvest this year?

Sam: Yeah, like I say, I mean the likes of cereals, they had a, they had a great run at the start of the summer. Towards the end of the summer, like I say, just in them a couple of days in the week, it would drop an immense amount of rain. So then they've then got to wait for it to either dry out, make sure that grains are the right moisture, moisture content, so yeah, those guys are. Towards the end of the summer, I can see even on the fields with, likes amazing stuff like it. There's a lot of crops still out, you know, especially up in Scotland with, with the oats and the barley. There's a hell of a lot of crops still out, you know, especially this time of year. It's, it's a scary thing to see.

Derek Wright: And the windows, it's closing, really.

Graham Collie: Closing.

Derek Wright: Yeah.

Sam: So, you know, we've got a great drought week ahead of us now. So I'm hoping, you know, they get it in however, like you say, if they miss this window, I'm not sure how many more they'll get.

Derek Wright: And we don't need the, obviously

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Derek Wright: the supply and demand that dictates, what the product price is going to be as well. In the supermarket, we want good yields.

Sam: Yeah, exactly.

Derek Wright: Definitely.

Sam: It's a strange thing, price farmers have to struggle for the prices to go up, which is. I've never been able to understand.

Derek Wright: It's crazy, isn't it?

Graham Collie: Yeah.

Sam: I was speaking to a farm in Holland, this past week and just, you know, about, just about the weather and about, you know, at the ground over the past, the past year. And it's, it's just scary how when everyone's doing great and the land's dry and the product's great, the prices drop and it's, it's just the wrong way to be really. But maybe we can resolve that in the next few years. Who knows?

Derek Wright: And it has been, hasn't it? We, you know, we. And we've spoken about it before that within the supermarkets, we're almost always looking for the cheapest. And that's why we brought. Well, actually, we're not giving that product the true value of what it's worth, what the farmers put into it. Obviously the supermarkets need to put something on that. But then to operate, we need a true product value instead of just the cheapest to the bottom.

Sam: So people understand because of the whole cost of living crisis and everything the past few years coming out of lockdown, you can understand people rummaging through different products and different shops and different supermarkets to find that cheapest product. And that's understandable. However, that product may have come from overseas. It may have been shipped in, you know, the week before. It might not be the freshest product. And like I say, it's not the most local one. So maybe this is something that can, that can change in the next few years, that can really promote.

Derek Wright: I know something we're trying to do is really start to think about seasonality again. We do to a certain extent, but we're very set on our menus. Twice a year change three weekly menus, very rigid with what we're providing our young people within the schools. And it's that time where we're starting to think, well, that's the way we've always done it and we've never challenged why and we should be more flexible. So one, thing what we're doing in our menu cycles now is we won't state what vegetables, for example, they've got to have within that day. We've always put two on our cows, but we're not stating that. And the reason for that, is we want to move to that seasonality and work with our wholesaler and say, well, what's coming in, what's good, what's good quality at the minute? And, what's the most that we can get out of that season so we can be flexible and introduce new new vegetables and things to our young people. So I think the public sector is a little bit guilty of using these rigid menu cycles. And I think that the industry is starting to wake up and see actually there's a different way of doing that and working with people like yourself, Sam, on the farm and the wholesalers and just getting the best out of our seasons. So thank you for inviting us down today. It really impressive to see the investments going down on the farm. We'll love to see that when it's working, Sam. Yeah, thank you very much.

Sam: Look forward to it. Thank you for coming.

Derek Wright: Great stuff. Thanks, Sam

Graham Collie, executive chef at King's College, London

So we're now with Graham Collie. Thank you for joining us. Graham is executive chef from King's College, London. Graham, just tell our listeners a little bit about yourself.

Graham Collie: Hi there. Yeah, like you say, exec chef at, King's College and culinary lead for Tuco, the university caterers organization, look after a team of 45 chefs turning over, approximately 12 million a year on retail and hospitality food services.

Derek Wright: So a busy brigade over at King's College.

Graham Collie: Yeah, yeah, yeah. We don't get a lot of downtime.

Derek Wright: And we're just coming into that season as well, aren't we, with, you know, the turkey orders will be going in soon, Graham.

Graham Collie: Yeah, I think, we had a breeding space last week. We had a breeding week. So we've been really busy since term started. A week of breeding and now, yeah, back into it. Festive time and. But of course the, advantage in education is they at least get Christmas off to spend with their families. So that's good.

Derek Wright: Yeah. And just to tell the listeners, Graeme, just a little bit about King's College so they can just picture m what you do down there.

Graham Collie: Okay, so we're, four main campuses in central London. So, the Strand at Aldwych, London, Bridge right by the Shard, so by Guy's Hospital, King's College London in Denmark Hill, and Waterloo Campus, which is right by Waterloo Bridge. Our students study everything, obviously medicine, lots of medicine. But through the arts, music, business, finance. So lots of students. 33,000 students enroll. We provide hot lunches every day across seven different restaurants. and then, hospitality across the whole business. But half of what we do is at Australian Canvas. So that's our, ah, busiest bit. Very focused on nutrition and healthy eating, sustainable

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Graham Collie: eating and obviously sustainable produce, meaning local produce where we can.

Derek Wright: Yeah. And, we've just obviously last month we just went through British Food Fortnight.

Graham Collie: Yeah.

Derek Wright: And Graham, just tell us a little bit about what you did at the college.

Graham Collie: So we ran the Love British Food Pie challenge. So we asked all of our head chefs to create pie, put it on specials and enter the competition with that. Not successful on a win, but that's fine. We can come back again next year.

Derek Wright: Yeah, definitely. And what pie was it?

s a, ah, big focus for us for: 2025

Derek Wright: Yep, great stuff.

Graham's letter to wholesalers urging easy procurement of UK produce

And I know during British Food Fortnight, Graham, you was instrumental in the, in the letter to wholesalers. Tell listeners a little bit about that letter and what, what you were trying to do there.

Graham Collie: Yeah, I think, like I say, we're not the best within the university sector. But without shirking responsibility, sometimes it's very hard, as I'm sure you're aware, to see what is British and what isn't British. I think, you know, the seasons are changing all of the time due to whatever it may be. I don't know why the weather's changing, but the weather can be very varied. and that can have a big impact on what we can get seasonally in the uk. So just be nice if the wholesalers can direct us to what is British produce. So I'm not asking them to, provide it, for the same cost. I understand. Sometimes it's very complicated for them. and there may well be an increased cost, they may not, we don't know. But we can't make those important decisions unless we know what it is that we're purchasing.

Spotlight on public sector catering

Derek Wright: Definitely. And I think that's a real key point because, you know, all different bits of the education sector, or shall we say the public catering sector as a whole, there is a bigger demand wanting to put more UK produce onto the plates. And we know the benefits sustainably and also the benefits through health and shorter and stronger supply chains. And the list goes on and we know the benefits. But it is trying to marry up now, isn't it? The demand. The farmers want to produce it, we certainly want to put it on our plates. But it's about marrying up that demand through the supply chain and really focusing on our wholesalers to make it easy to procure.

Graham Collie: Yeah, I think that's, I attended the farm based event that Alexia organized earlier in the year. it was an excellent event. Everyone was talking and it just kind of clicked in there. You had a whole load of farmers that were saying, right, we want to sell it to you, and a whole load of end users who were saying, right, well we want to buy it, but we need, we need to have it delivered. We can't buy. Buying direct doesn't really work. If I'm buying direct, I need delivery five days a week for 8:30 in the morning. You know, a farmer doesn't have the infrastructure to do that. We don't have the infrastructure to support them, whereas the wholesalers do have that. I understand that there's lots of complexities to it. It's really not as simple as just, right, I want that you get it, you give it to me. Until we can identify what those products are, even if it's not, it might be something that's just made in the UK and some of the ingredients are British and some might not be. If we don't know that, how can we make those really important decisions?

Derek Wright: That's it. And you mentioned about price, obviously. Price. We're always under a price pressure within the sectors that we work, but there's ways around that in the kitchen, isn't there? Ah, to be creative, and also use that seasonality of product. And I think one key thing that I've really been thinking about is certainly in the school sector that we're very much pigeonholed into a two menu cycle each year. And how do we be more creative and more flexible to utilize seasonality and also utilize our wholesale land farmers to Say, well, this is in season, or we've got to glutter this. Let's get it on the menus. And we need to be more flexible in the kitchens to cope with those gluts and demands to be able to change and take that benefit with that, as well. So that's something we've been looking at, certainly at our end. Is that something that's reflected through the menus in King's College?

Graham Collie: Funny you should say that, because we've been discussing doing exactly that.

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Graham Collie: Currently we are six monthly menu change. A lot of that's because of the logistics of changing our, menu, because we display our carbon footprint nutritionally, analyze every single dish that goes on the menu. A really long process. And then actually, you try and hit seasonality. But a lot of things that are seasonal aren't seasonal for six months. So maybe only three. Three months, two months, four months. So we've been talking about, how do we word menus so that we're using the wording Seasonal produce, seasonal vegetables. you know, I don't know. Is it farmer's choice? Is it seasonal veg? Is it chef's choice? Whatever it is being a lot less specific until the day.

Derek Wright: Yeah. And getting. Giving our kitchen teams a bit of freedom as well to be able to utilize that product.

Graham Collie: Yeah, yeah.

Derek Wright: And we've been very rigid in the past, certainly across the school kitchens, we just started to really reflect that. And certainly with vegetables and things be a little bit more flexible on, that certainly where there's a reduced risk of allergens, that we can sort of have that flexibility. I think we've been very rigid in the past. So, that's really good to hear and tell the wholesalers who are maybe listening, how they could maybe make it easier for us. Graham?

Graham Collie: Well, I think there's a number of things. I think probably something that we all need to do is talk about it a lot more, discuss how the solutions will work. I had a very, very interesting conversation with our wholesaler recently, and they were explaining stuff to me. I had no idea. You know, I just had made foolishly made assumptions. So that then made it a lot clearer to me some of the challenges they have. So if we're talking, I think that's the first thing. And then just identify. It might just be a small British flag, a little Union Jack, or whatever it may be. It could be. It doesn't need to come from England, so maybe it's produce that's coming from Scotland, but I would still rather be buying produce from Scotland than from Spain or somewhere else within Europe or Africa or, you know, it's just being clear about the provenance of that product. And I think that's something that we've. We've needed across the whole industry for a long time now.

Derek Wright: Yeah, definitely. And with that, I think it. I think we see a lot more demand from it, from the end users, obviously, a little bit difficult, in the primary schools, but certainly the parents want to see more British produce on the menu because of the guaranteed quality. obviously the meat. We have a higher welfare standard across meat that we produce within the uk, so I think there's a demand for it, certainly. And it's just getting those, those cogs all to work together, isn't it?

Graham Collie: Yeah. And I think on restaurant menus for a long time now, it's been popular to be very specific about where produce is coming from. I think people that use education catering kind of, you know, the expectations, the same. The expectation for quality, for provenance carries all the way throughout. And you and I will know that we've got a smaller budget and it's a lot harder for us to do. But for their perspective as a customer, that's an us problem, not them problem.

Derek Wright: Yeah, definitely. And that goes hand in hand with, discussions on the buying standards. Obviously, they're not enforced within the education catering sector at the moment. But if the government want to see caterers buying more British produce, they want to see that. That obviously funding needs, ah, to be reflected to be able to support and enable caterers to continue to, support our British farmers as well. There's many caterers in the northwest that I know. Lancashire County Council is a great example that they do a lot of work on the procurement side and working with, local wholesale and also local producers. and we want to keep that going ideally. So I think that there's got to be a reflection in funding as we. We sort of, improve our standards of products across education. And obviously you worked, you mentioned to our listeners at the start about Tuco. Do you want to just, tell us a little bit about Tuco and the work that you do there? Ah. And how that unites all the universities, and also public catering together.

Graham Collie: Yeah. So, I mean, CK are a purchasing platform for generally universities, but anyone within public sector, they're, happy to work with. And then as members, we've created a chefs forum where we take chefs from every region and we, we have a culinary lead for each region. We have a few

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Graham Collie: development chefs who do project work, and we just meet up every quarter and just discuss topical things, whatever's going on within the industry. So, for example, you know, how do we buy more British produce? We have a few WhatsApp chats on a little community, so we kind of, you know, can talk about stuff whenever we feel we need to. became put on an excellent culinary competition in April every year, which is, it's really good to see, see everyone kind of coming together, and working together. They have a love British produce category within their competitions. And again, more people than universities are welcome. So people, you know, are interested in seeing that, then by all means, search out, buy some tickets, come along, have a look. But yeah, generally we just, it's about us working together as a sector. I look often at contract caterers and a lot of the time there's power to make change in numbers and where they're very big companies, lots of clients, they have power to make change. And I think, you know, as public sector and as universities and there's education, if we can learn to work together, then we can make much more impactful change than working in silos.

Derek Wright: I totally agree with that, Graham. And obviously I'm part of Laser, which is, the association for school Food, shall we say, so the listeners understand. and I think those associations really work hand in hand to unite the industry. And it's great to see, support from so many wholesalers with love British food and the direction of travel. Obviously very successful British Food fortnight this year. And then we aim to reach out to more universities, schools as well as, the hospital sector.

Wholesalers important role in British food production

What were your highlights from the Fortnite, Graham?

Graham Collie: Well, I'm on a British feed WhatsApp chat and there was some schools on that chat that were just flooding us with just pictures of amazing, amazing quality food, really great food, using British produce. And it just reminded me I used to work in the education sector within the primary sector quite a few years ago, and it just reminded me of the capabilities of that sector and, the amazing food that they do. Sometimes you get negative press, very rarely you get that positive press where people see the fantastic work that they do do. So I thought that was very good. Very good indeed.

Derek Wright: Yeah, they were, they were fantastic, fantastic to see. And I know when Rob came on the last podcast and talking about some of the things that he, he had done and, you know, it was great to see so many as well as Victoria, Victoria's photos was, out this world. So amazing job.

een considerably harder since: 2020

Derek Wright: Yeah, the NG says definitely.

Graham Collie: Yeah.

Derek Wright: And I think something that we're looking to do in a later episode is really have that discussion with regional and national wholesalers to get their point of view so our listeners can really understand how the, shall we say, the food chain all comes together, because they play a massive part and our kitchens run like clockwork. And if there's not a delivery on Monday morning, everything goes out the window, doesn't it, Graham? So, exactly. They are an important. They play such an important role within our, kitchens on a daily basis. Tell our listeners about some of the other universities that, that you link into, because there was obviously a few included in the original letter.

Graham Collie: Yes, I mean, we work closely. Well, like I say, it's a nationwide thing. So we work closely with down south, Reading, Loughborough in the Midlands, Southampton, Bristol, we do a lot with. And then in Scotland, St Andrews and Edinburgh. So they're kind of the key unis that are working together at the moment. Probably have the most influence within, our chef's forum. And by no coincidence, they're the bigger universities. So then they've got a staffing structure where they have somebody within that structure who has the time to dedicate towards it. Otherwise, a lot of universities are, I would imagine, very similar to the sector that you work in. You know, everyone comes in and they don't come on PCs or laptops. They walk in in the morning and they start working and they work incredibly

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Graham Collie: hard until that moment when everything's cleaned down and switched off and then it's time to go home. So it depends on people like us who are privileged to be in that position to try and make that change and help everybody through that process, I think.

Derek Wright: Definitely. And it is that, sort of day, isn't it? We start with immaculate, clean kitchens. It doesn't matter what happens in the day. Maybe a great day might not be at the end of the Day, we clean down, we turn off the light. And such a good point to highlight all those people that don't get the air time. And that's a great thing about this podcast that we really, we're really privileged to be able to highlight that hard work or should we say the forgotten army that goes unseen. All this work within the public sector catering gets done out of sight sometimes and things just magically happen but in the background and there's a lot of work and sometimes a lot of stress to make it happen. So you're right in highlighting that Graham. And it'd be great to see the reaction from wholesale food just to try and get. We've obviously got some real key partners in wholesale backing. Love British food. Hopefully we can see more and their span certainly with brakes and other wholesalers have got such a span across the industry and strengths. As much as Acacia is typically being sports to me, make that change. So it's really exciting to sort of see some of these conversations and changes coming along.

Graham Collie: Yeah, definitely. It feels like the power is in their hands at the moment. You know, they've got the produce, they've got access to the produce. if they need more access then, you know, we know Lovebridge Food can make those introductions. They've got customers who want to buy the produce. We just need to know exactly where it is, what it is, how we buy it and we can, you know, we can do our bit then.

Derek Wright: Yeah. And it, it's nice to see. in this podcast we'll link into Sam, our resident farmer from Malbro Farms. And it's so nice to see third generation farmers actually investing in their own farms to meet the demand. So for example, Sam was showing us a leek, processing line. They come in off the fields, get washed, trimmed and the investment there into their production lines to meet that demand, to ensure that people like us can buy that British produce. So it's so nice to see. Just need that middleman to gel it all together and hopefully a lot more British produce on the plate.

Graham Collie: Yeah, I think it's the key part of the puzzle now.

Derek Wright: Yeah. Well, Graham M, thank you so much for joining the podcast. it's great to have you on and I'm sure we'll have many more conversations about wholesale and about British produce and certainly if we can maybe arrange a chat with some of the universities or know if you want to do a joint podcast with a few, that'd be absolutely fantastic.

Graham Collie: Yeah, that'd be brilliant. Yeah, definitely. Let's get something planned.

Derek Wright: Great stuff. Thank you, Graham.

Graham Collie: Cheers, Derek. thanks for having me.

Derek Wright: Take care and we'll see you soon.

Graham Collie: Take care. bye. Bye.

Derek Wright: It's now time to head over to the Love British Foods resident chef Ben Bartlett.

Ben Bartlett's November food focus

Over to you, Ben.

Graham Collie: Hello.

Ben Bartlett: It's Ben Bartlett, director and ambassador for Love British Food. And I'm here next to Blagdon Lake in lovely Somerset. Now, November is a time when the nights draw in and the fruits available in November are mostly apples and pears. But there are still plenty of superb British vegetables, including the main crop of potatoes and red cabbage. The fruits to look out for are, apples with varieties including the Cocks, Red Pippin, Golden Delicious and Empire. Also pears and quince. Now, there are loads of vegetables that are in season, including artichokes, beetroots, Brussels sprouts, butternut squash, savoy spring green, red and white cabbage, carrots, cauliflower, celeriac, celery, chicory, horseradish, drills, Jerusalem artichoke, kale, leeks, parsnip potatoes, pumpkin, salsify, shallots, swedes, turnips and wild mushrooms. There are also a few nuts and herbs, including chestnuts, cobnuts, rosemary, sage and watercress. The game is in season and is the best time for these meats, including duck, goose, grouse, guinea fowl, hare, lamb, mallard, partridge, pheasant, rabbit, turkey, venison and wood pigeon. And there are lots of fish and shellfish

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Ben Bartlett: that include clams, cod, coley, crab, dab, dovasol, gurnard, haddock, halibut, hake, lemsol, lobster, mackerel, monkfish, mussels, oysters, place pollock, red mullet, wild sea bass, sea bream, skate, squid, turbot and winkles. Here at Love British Food, we love sharing, cooking and of course, eating our delicious recipes. We have recipes for all occasions and you will find these recipes that have been created for you by our fantastic ambassadors. But if you would like to share your favourite recipes with us, please email them, to infoovebritishfood. Uh.co.uk as they say, the joy of food is sharing. I've created a delicious British lamb cutlets recipe that you can find on our website, lovebritishfood.co.uk recipes.

Ending notes

Derek Wright: That sounds delicious. If you want Ben's recipes, make sure you head over to lovebritishfood. Uh.co.uk Remember, when you're out and about shopping, Love British Food. Buy British food. Supporting British farmers and producers while strengthening our local communities.

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